Erudite Knight wrote:
The idea that you have a set of Natural Rights (to Life, Liberty, Property etc) is an immensely destructive belief that is naive and wrong. In case you do not know what this refers to, our entire culture, and especially Libertarianism has seized upon this idea that humans are somehow endowed with these ‘rights’ of which it is wrong to deny/take etc.
Nature – aka reality – owes you NOTHING. This is a key point to understand as we progress. Is there a ‘right’ or ‘wrong’ when one animal kills or steals from another? It is wrong when an animal takes what was someone elses? Does it care if the animal lived or died because of starvation, murder etc? No.
Likewise we are not separate from nature. Nature does not care if you live or die. It does not care you got smashed by a rock, or died from starvation. Nature is AMORAL. Once we get past out human bias this become clear, just like there is no inherrent wrong in one animal taking another, there is nothing moral about someone taking from someone else in the wild if it means survival. Now…I am not saying I support this, and this is a very key thing to understand, morality ONLY comes from what we collectively agree upon to bind ourselves to.
Is Nature a separate goddess – cruel like Kali or compassionate like Demeter? No.
Humans are indeed part of Nature.
Nature owes us nothing because Nature IS us, and Nature is also many things beside us.
When we talk about “natural rights,” we don’t have to believe in “natural wrongs.”
I think Erudite Knight made a typo in the passage above, but what he meant was: “There is nothing IMMORAL about someone taking from someone else in the wild if it means survival.”
If that is so, then Erudite Knight implicitly favors survival over self-destruction. He is saying, “To survive is good; to die is bad.”
And if we gave him more time to think about it, he might say, “To reproduce is better than not to reproduce. Darwin was right — the fit shall survive and thrive.”
But if we believe it is better to survive than to die, then we believe in a Natural Law that we ought to follow! We don’t follow that Law out of duty to Kali or Demeter, but rather out of duty to ourselves!
So, yes, Nature is not an anthropomorphic goddess, and thus Nature has no personal debts to us. That belief doesn’t disprove Natural Law – if anything, it tends to reinforce a belief that we ought to follow Natural Law!
So what is enslaving us is not a belief in Natural Law or a belief in Natural Rights. A belief that corrupt societies will respect our rights will lead us to make poor strategic decisions.
If you want to make better strategic decisions – start by finding — or building — a healthier society!